Are we free or predestined?
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In one sense,  both.\n\nHOW are we "free"?\n\nWe are free ABENTS --that is, we are free to CHOOSE, can freely make choices about what we do.  But, of course, we are not free to do just ANYTHING because of the limitations of our own nature and place in creation.\n\nSo, for instance, in may in one sense by "free" to do lift a building but what does that mean if I do not have the strength to do so?   I'm free to figure out complex mathematical formulas, but if I do not have the mental facility (and/or if the training is not available to me) what does the "freedom" mean?  Of what value is it?\n\nIn the same way, though I am a free AGENT, that does not mean my "will" is free.  In fact, Scripture is quite clear that human beings, born with a sinful, selfish nature are "slaves" to sin.  That is, even if we are "free" to do whatever we want, if our whole bent is to want only to serve my self, not to love God or others, my very will (what I choose) is itself BOUND, not ABLE to desire and choose what is good.\n\nThat is, unless and until God does something to FREE my will from bondage to sin and self to do what I humanity was created to do (to delight in loving and serving him --to FREELY choose what is good, as does God and the angels).\n\nThis is why the Reformers (not just Calvin!), following Augustine, taught that we are free to act as we will, but our WILLS --and WANTS-- are not free, but bound to sin.   In fact, Luther responded to the contrary idea by Erasmus with a book called *The BONDAGE of the Will.*   This is also a large part of what the Reformed & Presbyterians churches mean by "total inability" (a more accurate term than the oft misunderstood "total depravity").\n\nTo some degree the whole church has taught that our very WILLS, as sinners, have a bent against God, and that whatever "freedom" we have is limited by our sinful nature.  (But they also teach that the believer experiences some freedom from sin in this life, and perfect freedom hereafter.)\n\nDo note, in all this, that the Christian conviction is that really being FREE does NOT mean 'being my own ruler' (autonomy), but being free to want/choose and do what I was CREATED for.  (Compare a fish in the ocean, free to swim -- it is not "freedom" for it to leave the water.)\n\n-------------------\n\n"Free" AND Predestined?\n\nEveryone here seems to be making the assumption that we must either be free to choose OR God has predestined events --or at best that he has predestined things in a very general way and the rest is all up to us.\n\nI suggest that, as impossible as it is for OUR finite minds to reconcile the two it is NOT one or the other, or a compromise between the two, but BOTH are true.\n\nNow I noticed that the "we are free" side did not cite any verses, or any other evidence beyond their own.   Actually I think they could have.  Because we ARE free in the sense discussed above (and with the limitations!)  And the 'predestination' side is also absolutely correct to insist that God is sovereign, and especially that we (as sinners) do not freely choose to respond to him, unless and until HE choses us and acts to free our sinful WILLS to respond.  (Before that we 'freely' choose to rebel; when he has graciously wooed, won and turned our hearts** we freely choose to follow.)\n\n**note that he does not, in the process, violate our human nature, but works in keeping with it ('he does not treat us like sticks or rocks' the Reformers would say)\n\nThere is, of course, still a great mystery here and much that our proud hearts do not want to accept (we don't want to "let God be GOD!") -- but as with many questions about the nature and acts of God we should not be suprised that we cannot wrap our minds around it.  If WE understood how it all fits together WE would be God!   Yet we CAN understand and exp
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Do you know what will happen 5 minutes from now? Neither do I. God does, but he's not saying. So in 5 minutes when I make a choice, God will know what choice I'll make before I make ti - but until I make the choice I won't know. That's free will and God's omniscience.
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The slaves in Rom 6:17-18 are free. They are free to choose whether to be a slave of sin or a slave of righteousness. Since we are mere mortals we will serve one or the other.\nThey choose to be free from sin and serve righteousness.\nThanks be to God that we have that choice.\nGrace is God's undeserved favor toward us.\nJesus is the truth
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If free will doesn't exist, then it would be pointless for you to ask this question.\n\nIf that's not enough of an answer, we're probably saved by the statistical nature of quantum mechanics.  But, free will is not something that physics can address at this time.  There's no data.
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I believe in questioning.  Dogma is nothing more than that.  If we believed everything that was writing ans aid, where would we be now?  That in itself is a matter of opinion and some people would asy we were better off, but would we be?  The world is flat and we can't fly........
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You ask a very tough question.\nAs far as the thought that we planned our lives, that's nonsense.  You get no such understanding from the bible.\n\nWe do get an understanding that our lives are predestined according to scripture.\nEph 1 will talk about predestination.\n\nNow, if that is the case, where does free will come into play?  \nHere is my understanding, but I won't hold it as dogmatic and I am open for correction on this one.\n\nI believe that we are predestined according to becoming saved.  We know that no man can come to God unless He draws him.\nJohn 6:44\nNo man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.\n\nSo God chooses who He draws and who He doesn't.  We know that we were chosen before the earth was made.\nEph 1:4\nAccording as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:\n\nI also believe that even though He has chosen us, it is still up to us to serve Him after that.  We must make the choice to serve Him after the calling.\nJoshua 24:15\nAnd if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.\n\nSo, we see that there is a choice to serve Him or not.  \n\nThe callings that God gives us are not our choice.  You can't choose to be an evangelist or a prophet.  You can only acknowledge what God has called you to be and work in that calling.  However, you still have a choice to operate in that calling or not.\nYou can still be disobedient or obedient.  That choice is up to you.\n\nHere's the bottom line.  We shouldn't be overly concerned about this.  Regardless of whether we are predestined or not, our main focus should be to serve God with our all.  The doctrine of predestination causes some people to become lazy in the faith because they feel that they can't screw up.  So, they wind up becoming lazy and very bad Christians.\nJust serve God with everything you have and let these kinds of questions be answered after we meet God face to face.
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Jesus paid the price when He died on the cross for us.  So grace for us is free.  In the earthly world, nothing is free so I suggest we all take advantage of God's saving grace by accepting and believing in Him!
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that is a very good point,, i have always  thought, if i "feel/think/see"   things a certain way,,, that i was made to be this way,,,, and how can i be faulted for being made the way i am,,,, by a creator, so yes, if God works within us, to determine our will,,, then is it really free will? how would we even know?  maybe God works with us,, in helping develop our will,,,,, in that if we desire something,, we find the things we need, the resources,  but where did that desire come from in the first place,  even if its something we feel we thought up,, most likely we were influenced  by our life/our contacts in life,,, what caused us to come across those certain expeirences?  and why did we react in the way we did??
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GOOD ? !\ni believe that everything is already determined for us and that the things that we consider our choices have already been predetermined and that we are just living it out, thinking that we are making our minds up for our selves when in fact we are just following the steps on the map that will lead us to the final destination
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A good question! \n\nI expect you'll get a lot of the "free will" answers, but what about in Heaven, after death? Will we still have free will there, or will be be "robots"? If we have free will in Heaven, does that mean that we can sin while we're in Heaven? If we don't have free will in Heaven, does that mean that we will then be "robots" for eternity? And if we can be "robots" there, then, why not here, now?
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I think we have first the abiity to choose. What good would it do to have options if we didn't know what to do with them? And yes, I think things need a "reference point" so to speak in order to "exist." Yet when God created the world He created everything else before he created man. Maybe this question is not as simple as it seemed when I first read it. Oh dear.
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Agree with you. And adding: he already knows what will happen, so where does free will fit in ?
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I would say we did not exist before God. We only existed in his mind as he was planning to create us.\nMen probably think they can rule somebody because they are strong enough to do it but not smart enough to understand they don't have to do it.\nI would say the contrary concerning about men avoiding household.
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none that I know of.\n\nNothing in life is free.
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God has given to us free will.  We can believe in Him or not.  It is not His Will that any of us should perish.  But He gives us that choice.  He says in the Bible that His people are destroyed from lack of knowledge.   May God Bless
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Ah but is it a gift or a curse just to be able to ask that question? Free will is a concept not an actuality. Does it exist or is it an illusion? Either way...what should we make of it? (Nothing like answering a question with more questions.)Perhaps if we transposed the words---will free---we would be happier with the choices we choose to make.
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Well, that is an easy question. God has always been. Before He created the world and Adam and Eve. He was, is, and always will be.\nhave a good one! :)