How do you prove the Trinity?
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I had to study before I attempted to answer this in the right manner.  The Trinity: God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit can be explained in the scriptures.  Trying to PROVE it to an unbeliever is a lesson in futility.\n\nThere's God the Creator; there's Jesus who is also the living Word of god; and the Holy Spirit, the guider of Christians who follow Jesus Christ.\n\nHere's some scriptures for you to study:\nJohn ch. 1:1-34\nRomans chapter 8\nMatthew ch. 3:16\nActs ch. 10:38\nLuke ch. 1:13; and ch.24: 45-49.
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Various citations regarding the errors of the Trinity, by Catholic Theologians, Protestants, Scholars & Historians, etc: \n\nRegarding John 10:30, John Calvin (who was a Trinitarian) said in the book Commentary on the Gospel According to John: “The ancients made a wrong use of this passage to prove that Christ is . . . of the same essence with the Father. For Christ does not argue about the unity of substance, but about the agreement which he has with the Father.”\nDr. Edgar J. Goodspeed, the Bible translator, on 1 John 5:7: “This verse has not been found in Greek in any manuscript in or out of the New Testament earlier than the thirteenth century. It does not appear in any Greek manuscript of 1 John before the fifteenth century, when one cursive has it; one from the sixteenth also contains the reading. These are the only Greek manuscripts of the New Testament in which it has ever been found. But it occurs in no ancient Greek manuscript or Greek Christian writer or in any of the oriental versions. . . . It is universally discredited by Greek scholars and editors of the Greek text of the New Testament.”- Page 557 of The Goodspeed Parallel New Testament—The American Translation and The King James Version. Edition of 1943. \n\nA PROTESTANT publication states: “The word Trinity is not found in the Bible It did not find a place formally in the theology of the church till the 4th century.” (The Illustrated Bible Dictionary) \nEdward Gibbon’s History of Christianity, we read: “If Paganism was conquered by Christianity, it is equally true that Christianity was corrupted by Paganism. The pure Deism of the first Christians . . . was changed, by the Church of Rome, into the incomprehensible dogma of the trinity. Many of the pagan tenets, invented by the Egyptians and idealized by Plato, were retained as being worthy of belief.”\nBernhard Lohse says in A Short History of Christian Doctrine: “As far as the New Testament is concerned, one does not find in it an actual doctrine of the Trinity.” \n\nThe New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology similarly states: “The New Testament does not contain the developed doctrine of the Trinity. Also the Bible lacks the express declaration that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are of equal essence said [Protestant theologian Karl Barth].” \nYale University professor E. Washburn Hopkins affirmed: “To Jesus and Paul the doctrine of the trinity was apparently unknown; they say nothing about it. ”- Origin and Evolution of Religion. \nHistorian Arthur Weigall notes: “Jesus Christ never mentioned such a phenomenon, and nowhere in the New Testament does the word Trinity appear. The idea was only adopted by the Church three hundred years after the death of our Lord. ” The Paganism in Our Christianity. \n\nThe New Encyclopedia Britannica says: “Neither the word Trinity, nor the explicit doctrine as such, appears in the New Testament, nor did Jesus and his followers intend to contradict the Shema in the Old Testament: 'Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord' (Deut. 6:4). . . . The doctrine developed gradually over several centuries and through many controversies. By the end of the 4th century - the doctrine of the Trinity took substantially the form it has maintained ever since.” (1976), Micropedia, Vol. X, p. 126.\nThe New Catholic Encyclopedia states: “The formulation one God in three Persons was NOT solidly established, certainly NOT fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century. But it is precisely this formulation that has first claim to the title the Trinitarian dogma. Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective.” (1967), Vol. XIV, p. 299\n\nIn The Encyclopedia Americana we read: “Christianity derived from Judaism and Judaism was strictly Unitarian (believing that God is one being). The road which led from
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God is a being of tri-ality. It is called the The Trinity. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. These are all manifestations of God, therefor non is subordinate to the other. \n\nI once had difficulty understanding the Trinity and how one being could actualy be three, but still be one. This was when I was younger and confused. Over time I found my answers, which were not given to me by others. These are my own understanding of God as I grew durring this life of spiritual growth. \n\nI often use nature to describe spiritual concepts. For this I will use H20 which is water. Water actually is a reflection of the Trinity. For me anyway it helps describe this manifestation and how it is not only possible but simple science. \n\nWater has three very real forms, yet each form is still water, and none is greater than the other, as this is impossible when all three are exactly the same element. H20. There is the liquid water, there is the solid ice and there is the vaperous steam. Each play a vital role, and each is extreamly strong in its powers. Water is life sustaining, life giving, and it can also remove material over time. We are made of of 80% water. Out bodies are a prime example of the power of water. Without our water content we could not sustain our bodies. We have more water than blood in us. We have more water than skin on us. Some say our largest organ is our skin, but in reality our largest organ is our water. We could live a while, if kept in a sanitary enviroment, without our skin. We could not live for a moment if all our water was removed from us. We would shrivel and turn to bone and dust. We can live without food for days, a month, a month and a half, if there is water to put into our bodies. However, without water we die withiin a few very short days. So, you can see how powerful water is, and yet water is not God. \n\nIce can shave off mountain tops, cut out valleys, cool us on a hot day, ice provides the water we need in the valleys of the world. Ice is power and life sustaining. Steam is as powerful as water and ice. It cooks our food, makes us energy to heat and light our homes. It is sanitary and pure. Steam is powerful, as powerful as liquid H20 and ice. \n\nAll three are the exact same element. All three are as powerful as the other. How could they not be when all three are the exact same thing? Just in different manifestations. If they are exactly the same element, it is impossible for the basic structure to be any less in which ever form it takes. This is a reflection of the Trinity and speaks to me strongly of God and His power. We are His children, each and every one of us. None is less loved or beloved than another, regardless of what we do or do not do. We are created in His image, for His glory. We are here on a spiritual journey of discovery and growth. God is pleased when we love one another or at least try to tolerate each other and accomodate each others differences. \n\nNo, Jesus Christ is NOT subordinate to God the Father. It is impossible as Jesus Christ the Son IS God the Father, just in a different manifestation. You did not ask about the third part of the Trinity. God the Holy Spirit. Just as Jesus Christ is God, the Holy Spirit is as well. The Holy Spirit is also not subordinate to God the Father, as the Holy Spirit is God. They are all God. Just three seperate manifestations of Him, as water has three seperate but equal manifestaions.\n\nBless you on your spiritual journey through this life.
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proofs of God:\n\ncreation\n\n\nconscience
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No one can prove it - zero, one, or many.  Gods, for some reason, choose to leave no evidence of their existence.\n\nFunny, isn't it.\n\nA
111376
read John 1 yes it was the trinity.   So how are we like God?  what part of us is his image?
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Without a doubt, you have often heard the claim that Jesus is God, the second person in the "Holy Trinity". However, the very Bible which is used as a basis for knowledge about Jesus and as the basis for doctrine within Christianity clearly belies this claim. We urge you to consult your own Bible and verify that the following conclusions are not drawn out of context: \n\n1. God is All Knowing... but Jesus was not.\n\nWhen speaking of the Day of Judgment, Jesus clearly gave evidence of a limitation on his knowledge when he said, "but of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in Heaven, neither the son, but the Father." (Mark 13:32 and Matt 24:36) But God knows all. His knowledge is without any limitations. That Jesus, of his own admission, did not know when the Day of Judgment would be, is clear proof that Jesus is not all-knowing, and that Jesus is therefore not God.\n\n2. God is All-Powerful... but Jesus was not.\n\nWhile Jesus performed many miracles, he himself admitted that the power he had was not his own, but derived from God. He said, "Verily I say unto you, the Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do..." (John 5:19) Again he said, "I can of mine own self do nothing: As I hear I judge, and my judgment is just because I seek not mine own will but the will of the Father which has sent me." (John 5:30) But God is not only all-powerful, He is also the source of all power and authority. That Jesus, of his own admission, could do nothing on his own is clear proof that Jesus is not all-powerful, and that therefore Jesus is not God.\n\n3. God does not have a God... but Jesus did have a God.\n\nGod is the ultimate judge and refuge for all, and He does not call upon nor pray to any others. But Jesus acknowledged that there was one whom he worshipped and to whom he prayed when he said, "I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God." (John 20:17) He is also reported to have cried out while on the cross, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" (Matt 27:46) If Jesus were God, then couldn't this be read "Myself, myself, why hast thou forsaken me?" Would that not be pure nonsense? When Jesus prayed the Lord's prayer (Luke 11:2-4) was he praying to himself? When in the garden of Gethsemane he prayed, "O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: Nevertheless, not as I will but as thou wilt." (Matt 26:36-39) Was Jesus praying to himself? That Jesus, of his own admission, and by his own actions, acknowledged, worshipped and prayed to another being as God, is clear proof that Jesus himself is not God.\n\n4. According to the Bible, God is invisible to humans... but Jesus was flesh and blood.\n\nWhile thousands saw Jesus and heard his voice, Jesus himself said that this could not be done with God when he said, " No man hath seen God at any time." (John 1:18) "Ye have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His shape." (John 5:37) He also said in John 4:24, "God is a spirit and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." That Jesus would say that no one had seen or heard God ant any time, while his followers both saw and heard him, is clear proof that Jesus was not God.\n\n5. No one is greater than God and no one can direct Him... but Jesus acknowledged someone greater than himself whose will was distinct from his own.\n\nPerhaps the clearest indication we have that Jesus and God are not equal, and therefore not one and the same, come again from the mouth of Jesus himself who said in John 14:28, "My Father is greater than I." When someone referred to him as a "good master" in Luke 18:19, Jesus responded, "Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is God..." Further more, Jesus drew clear distinctions between himself and God when he said, "I proceeded forth and cam
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"Trinity" is a term that is not found in the Bible but a word used to describe what is apparent about God in the Scriptures. The Bible clearly speaks of God the Father, God the Son (Jesus Christ), and God the Holy Spirit...and also clearly presents that there is only one God. Thus the term: "Tri" meaning three, and "Unity" meaning one, Tri+Unity = Trinity. It is a way of acknowledging what the Bible reveals to us about God, that God is yet three "Persons" who have the same essence of deity.\nSome have tried to give human illustrations for the Trinity, such as H2O being water, ice and steam (all different forms, but all are H2O). Another illustration is an egg having a shell, egg yolk and egg white, but this egg illustration shows that there would be "parts" to God, which isn't the case.\n\nGod the Son (Jesus) is fully, completely God. God the Father is fully, completely God. And God the Holy Spirit is fully, completely God. Yet there is only one God. In our world, with our limited human experience, it's tough to understand the Trinity. But from the beginning we see God this way in Scripture. Notice the plural pronouns "us" and "our" in Genesis 1:26 -- Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."\n\nThough not a complete list, here is some other Scripture that shows God is one, in Trinity: \n\n"Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!" (Deut. 6:4)\n\n"I am the LORD, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God." (Isa. 45:5)\n\nThere is no God but one. (1Cor. 8:4)\n\nAnd after being baptized, Jesus went up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon Him, and behold, a voice out of the heavens, saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased." (Matt. 3:16-17)\n\n"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit." (Matt. 28:19)\n\nJesus said: "I and the Father are one." (John 10:30)\n\n"He who has seen Me has seen the Father." (John 14:9)\n\n"He who beholds Me beholds the One who sent Me." (John 12:45)\n\nIf anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. (Rom. 8:9)\n\n"Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife; for that which has been conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit." (Matt. 1:20)\n\nAnd the angel answered and said to her [Mary], "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy offspring shall be called the Son of God." (Luke 1:35)\n\n[Jesus speaking to His disciples] "And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not behold Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you, and will be in you." ... "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him, and make Our abode with him." (John 14:16-17, 23)
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The concept of the Trinity is often hard to grasp. In your question, you seem to show that you believe that the Trinity did not always exist. According to John 1, Jesus was with God, in God, and God from the begining, they were never seperate (except when Jesus took on the world's sins on the cross). in John 10, Jesus states that 'I and the father are one,' in John 10:30. The plainest biblical evidence for the Trinity falls in 1 John 5:7, where it says "7For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. "\n\nEach Godhead (The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit) are God, and the same one God, yet they are different. They each have their distinctive roles, yet are one unit.
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NO, NO\n\nWhat is the origin of the Trinity doctrine?\nThe New Encyclopædia Britannica says: “Neither the word Trinity, nor the explicit doctrine as such, appears in the New Testament, nor did Jesus and his followers intend to contradict the Shema in the Old Testament: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord’ (Deut. 6:4). . . . The doctrine developed gradually over several centuries and through many controversies. . . . By the end of the 4th century . . . the doctrine of the Trinity took substantially the form it has maintained ever since.”Micropædia, Vol. X, p. 126.\nThe New Catholic Encyclopedia states: “The formulation ‘one God in three Persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century. But it is precisely this formulation that has first claim to the title the Trinitarian dogma. Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective.”\nIn The Encyclopedia Americana we read: “Christianity derived from Judaism and Judaism was strictly Unitarian [believing that God is one person]. The road which led from Jerusalem to Nicea was scarcely a straight one. Fourth century Trinitarianism did not reflect accurately early Christian teaching regarding the nature of God; it was, on the contrary, a deviation from this teaching\nDoes the Bible agree with those who teach that the Father and the Son are not separate and distinct individuals?\nMatt. 26:39, RS: “Going a little farther he [Jesus Christ] fell on his face and prayed, ‘My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as thou wilt.’” (If the Father and the Son were not distinct individuals, such a prayer would have been meaningless. Jesus would have been praying to himself, and his will would of necessity have been the Father’s will.)\nJohn 8:17, 18, RS: “[Jesus answered the Jewish Pharisees:] In your law it is written that the testimony of two men is true; I bear witness to myself, and the Father who sent me bears witness to me.” (So, Jesus definitely spoke of himself as being an individual separate and distinct from the Father.)\nDoes the Bible teach that all who are said to be part of the Trinity are eternal, none having a beginning?\nCol. 1:15, 16, RS: “He [Jesus Christ] is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation; for in him all things were created, in heaven and on earth.” In what sense is Jesus Christ “the first-born of all creation”? \n, the expression “the firstborn of” occurs upwards of 30 times in the Bible, and in each instance that it is applied to living creatures the same meaning applies—the firstborn is part of the group. “The firstborn of Israel” is one of the sons of Israel; “the firstborn of Pharaoh” is one of Pharaoh’s family; “the firstborn of beast” are themselves animals.\nDoes the Bible teach that none of those who are said to be included in the Trinity is greater or less than another, that all are equal, that all are almighty?\nMark 13:32, RS: “Of that day or that hour no ones knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.” (Of course, that would not be the case if Father, Son, and Holy Spirit were coequal, comprising one Godhead. And if, as some suggest, the Son was limited by his human nature from knowing, the question remains, Why did the Holy Spirit not know?)\n1 Cor. 11:3, RS: “I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a woman is her husband, and the head of Christ is God.” (Clearly, then, Christ is not God, and God is of superior rank to Christ. It should be noted that this was written about 55 C.E., some 22 years after Jesus returned to heaven. So the truth here stated applies to the relationship between God and Christ in heaven.)\nDoes the Bible teach that each of those said to be part of the Trinit
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THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS THE "TRINITY"\n\n1st of all Jesus said: He pointed to God as the Source of his life, saying, “I live because of the Father.” According to the context, this meant that his life resulted from or was caused by his Father, even as the gaining of life by dying men would result from their faith in Jesus’ ransom sacrifice.—Joh 6:56, 57.\n\nJesus’ being called the “only-begotten Son” (Joh 1:14; 3:16, 18) does not mean that the other spirit creatures produced were not God’s sons, for they are called sons as well. (Ge 6:2, 4; Job 1:6) However, by virtue of his being the sole direct creation of his Father, the firstborn Son was unique, different from all others of God’s sons, all of whom were created or begotten by Jehovah through that firstborn Son. So “the Word” was Jehovah’s “only-begotten Son” in a particular sense,\n\nJesus is also “Mighty God” and “Eternal Father.” This does not mean that he usurps the authority and position of Jehovah, who is “God our Father.” (2 Corinthians 1:2) “He [Jesus] . . . gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God.” (Philippians 2:6) He is called Mighty God, not Almighty God. Jesus never thought of himself as God Almighty, for he spoke of his Father as “the only true God,” that is, the only God who should be worshiped. (John 17:3;\n\nDoes the Bible teach that all who are said to be part of the Trinity are eternal, none having a beginning?\n\nRev. 1:1; 3:14, RS: “The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him .  Why did God have to give Jesus the revelation, if Jesus is God?\n\nDoes the Bible teach that none of those who are said to be included in the Trinity is greater or less than another, that all are equal, that all are almighty? Mark 13:32, RS: “Of that day or that hour no ones knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.” (Of course, that would not be the case if Father, Son, and Holy Spirit were coequal, comprising one Godhead. And if, as some suggest, the Son was limited by his human nature from knowing, the question remains, Why did the Holy Spirit not know?)\n\nJohn 14:28, RS: “[Jesus said:] If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I go to the Father; for the Father is greater than I.”\n\n1 Cor. 11:3, RS: “I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a woman is her husband, and the head of Christ is God.” (Clearly, then, Christ is not God, and God is of superior rank to Christ. It should be noted that this was written about 55 C.E., some 22 years after Jesus returned to heaven. \n\nA person who is really seeking to know the truth about God is not going to search the Bible hoping to find a text that he can construe as fitting what he already believes. He wants to know what God’s Word itself says. He may find some texts that he feels can be read in more than one way, but when these are compared with other Biblical statements on the same subject their meaning will become clear. It should be noted at the outset that most of the texts used as “proof” of the Trinity actually mention only two persons, not three; so even if the Trinitarian explanation of the texts were correct, these would not prove that the Bible teaches the Trinity.\n\nI COULD GO ON & ON WITH SCRIPTURES & EXPLANATIONS, BUT I THINK THIS ALREADY TO LONG FOR SOME PEOPLE.
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But if I have proven that it is completely incontrovertable that Jesus and God do infact rule the world how is it possible to prove otherwise? \n\nBut to answer your question, if someone could prove to me that Jesus and God were human fabrications, no, I wouldn't believe.
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No.  Nowhere in the entire Bible is there any mention of the "Trinity."  It is NOT a Bible teaching.  \n\nWhat is the origin of the Trinity doctrine?\n\nThe New Encyclopædia Britannica says: “Neither the word Trinity, nor the explicit doctrine as such, appears in the New Testament, nor did Jesus and his followers intend to contradict the Shema in the Old Testament: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord’ (Deut. 6:4). . . . The doctrine developed gradually over several centuries and through many controversies. . . . By the end of the 4th century . . . the doctrine of the Trinity took substantially the form it has maintained ever since.”—(1976), Micropædia, Vol. X, p. 126.\n\nThe New Catholic Encyclopedia states: “The formulation ‘one God in three Persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century. But it is precisely this formulation that has first claim to the title the Trinitarian dogma.  Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective.”—(1967), Vol. XIV, p. 299.\n\nIn The Encyclopedia Americana we read: “Christianity derived from Judaism and Judaism was strictly Unitarian [believing that God is one person]. The road which led from Jerusalem to Nicea was scarcely a straight one. Fourth century Trinitarianism did not reflect accurately early Christian teaching regarding the nature of God; it was, on the contrary, a deviation from this teaching.”—(1956), Vol. XXVII, p. 294L.\n\nAccording to the Nouveau Dictionnaire Universel,  “The Platonic trinity, itself merely a rearrangement of older trinities dating back to earlier peoples, appears to be the rational philosophic trinity of attributes that gave birth to the three hypostases or divine persons taught by the Christian churches. . . . This Greek philosopher’s [Plato, fourth century B.C.E.] conception of the divine trinity . . . can be found in all the ancient pagan religions.”—(Paris, 1865-1870), edited by M. Lachâtre, Vol. 2, p. 1467.\n\nJohn L. McKenzie, S.J., in his Dictionary of the Bible, says: “The trinity of persons within the unity of nature is defined in terms of ‘person’ and ‘nature’ which are Greek philosophical terms; actually the terms do not appear in the Bible. The trinitarian definitions arose as the result of long controversies in which these terms and others such as ‘essence’ and ‘substance’ were erroneously applied to God by some theologians.”—(New York, 1965), p. 899.
830855
What is to be proved? It's not clear.
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Have you ever heard of the Holy Trinity?  That is God (the Father), Jesus (the Son), and the Holy Spirit.  They are all the same being.  It is very difficult to comprehend, at least with our human mind.  The Bible talks about the three of them separately so many times it almost seems as they are different, but they are truly one.\n\nThe easiest way it was explained to me for comprehension was this:  Think about who you are...for example, let's say you are a mother, a daughter, and an office manager.  You are all three of those things, but you are one person.  \n\nThere is a lot more to it, but they are all the same with different traits and do different things for us.  If you'd like a more indepth answer let me know.  I just don't want to write an obnoxiously long response here.
671757
The Concept of Trinity is the teaching of Church and not the Teaching of Jesus...In fact there is not a singel word pronounced as Trinity in the Bible... The only verse which is somewhat nearest to the concepet of Trinity is the First Epistle of John 5:7 which says "For there are three who bear record in Heaven, The Father, The Word and the Holy Ghost and these three are one"...\n\nSurprisingly this verse has now been removed by 32 Christian Scholars of the Highest Eminence backed by 50 Cooperating Denominations, they say that this verse is not found in the most ancient manuscripts and hence is a fabrication. You don't find this verse anymore in INV and RSV though other Bibles are still quoting this fabricated statement.\n\nTrinity was actually highlighted by Paul and he was directly inspired by the Roman Paganism...\n\nFor more Information...\n\nshiekhtm@yahoo.com
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it is impossible to prove a negative.  One cannot prove the non-existance of god just as they could not prove the non-existance of WMD's in Iraq.  The lack of evidence against something in both cases is not evidence of it's existance.