Please tell me where I am wrong with this seemingly inescapable logic on the Iraq situation?
91984
midrash40 and dragonfly9151974 I didn’t know there were really people still as naive as you.\n\nHere is a link with a quote from the White House saying that Iraq does not have WMD:\n\nhttp://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/01/20050112-7.html\n\nHere is a link from the hearings on when the White House admitted that Iraq did not fund terrorism linked to al Qaeda or anyone else substantial:\n\nhttp://www.fbi.gov/congress/congress03/mefford062703.htm\n\nAnd just in case you try to use that lame excuse that they were “moved”, here is a link from Fox News that they were not moved to Syria or anywhere else:\n\nhttp://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,107946,00.html\n\nHere is a number of links from all kinds of sources saying that Iraq is about to start a civil war or already has:\n\nhttp://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0227/p01s03-woiq.html\nhttp://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/23/AR2006022300216.html\nhttp://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-mood25feb25,0,2529739.story?coll=la-home-headlines\nhttp://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/26/weekinreview/26weis.html\nhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4741616.stm\nhttp://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=1652025\nhttp://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB113236130033602047-zCx1WvfGIuZvGZJVr_MWVRGcFGE_20061118.html?mod=tff_main_tff_top\n\nEven Military.com has said that it has started:\n\nhttp://www.military.com/opinion/0,15202,88803,00.html\n\nFox News is already saying that the Civil War is a good thing (God bless them for trying so hard):\n\nhttp://mediamatters.org/items/200602240003\n\nLook, we all wanted Iraq to have Democracy and be free.  But this didn’t work out, we failed.  Iraq will, as Brian said, immediately fall into a long, nasty civil war.  They’ve done this exact thing for centuries and will do it again now.  I’m sorry, but we royally messed this one up.\n\nI know that you won't see the light, and you guys are probably some of those people who think we won the Vietnam War, but you are seriously outnumbered by just about everyone else INCLUDING THE WHITE HOUSE.  I do applaud your hope, but worry about your mental stability.\n\nBrian,\n\nYes, your logic is correct. \n\nJohn
919198
IT IS AN AL QUEDA PLOT TO DESTABILIZE THE COUNTRY AND TO GET THE REST OF THE WORLD TO BLAME THE US FOR THE PROBLEMS. THE MAJORITY OF THE TROUBLE MAKERS ARE NOT EVEN FROM IRAQ. THE PROBLEMS IS THAT THE IRAQI FACTIONS ARE NOT GOING TO ALLOW THE INSURGENTS TO KILL THEM WITH OUT A FIGHT. IT SEEM LIKE A CIVIL WAR BUT IT IS AN INTRICATE PLOT TO DESTROY THE AMERICAN PROCESS. THAT IS WHY WE HAVE TO STICK IT OUT. IF WE RUN WE WILL BE ASKING FOR FURTHER PROBLEMS ON OUR HOMELAND.
488878
"demands the slaying of iraqi women &babies" - do me a favour ... if you have a real debate then ask it in a reasonable fasion rather than just a rant.\n\nThis is a very serious subject wirth so many ways it can be questioned in a rational manner.\n\nPeace out
757890
You seem to be suffering from an unfortunate case of naievity. The war in Iraq was and remains an conflict to gain oil and distract public opinion from home problems. I'm an ex-British infantry officer (Afghanistan veteran) and I now work in the Oil industry so I'm fairly confident of my sources. The US (and incidentally us brits) went into Iraq in order to corner one of the largest oil reserves in the world and open it up for exploitation by their (and their political allies) coorporations and multinationals. If you look at the companies making billions out of the restructuring of the region and more importantly those who stand to make billions from their share in the now non-embargoed oil you will not find any French or German owned or based companies. You will however find companies who fund the election campaigns of the majority of the US Senate and pay huge ammounts of taxes to the British government. \n\nSchroeder and Chirac may have scored political points with the masses temporarily, but in the long run their disastorous right-wing policies on unemployment and immigration respectively will ensure they remain as negatively memorable as Bush and possibly Blair.\n\nFurthermore, what you call, the carnage in Iraq was not unimaginable four years ago. Senior Britsh military and independent analysts predicted that Iraq would turn into a bloody policing action in a similar manner to the explosion of violence in Northern Ireland in the 1950s. They were mocked in the newspapers when immediatedly after the 'liberation' there were no mass reprisals. Any occupying force in history, whether benign or not, has inevitably become the scapegoat for all local problems and has then been attacked, at the very least in the popular press and at the worst in the form of terrorism and or an armed uprising. International examples of this include Aden, Sierra Leone, Vietnam, etc.\n\nFinally the Iraqi's are not better off than they were before. However a basic understanding of the power dynamic in the Arab world and the disparate collection of races Iraq is made up of shows that widespread conflict in Iraq was inevitable. If and when Saddam died in power the same Sunni, Shiite, Criminal or potential Dictators would have formed their own cliques and siezed or recruited whatever weapons and branches of military they could and resumed the infighting. The proof of this is that this has occurred every time there has been a transition of power in Iraq since they deposed of their King just prior to World War 2.\n\nWars are never fought for the reasons claimed before or decided after the event.
300332
I suspected Greasy was trying to line up statements justifying the invasion of Iraq, but he claims he's not and added a negative for the chaotic democracy, that if you speak out you're more likely to be assassinated.  I'm still pointing out that the analogy to Iraq--intended or not--is not accurate.  The forces of democracy also face a military occupation that is widely detested, and infiltration by violent radical foreigners, and you're in danger of sliding into poverty because the economy is falling apart.\n\nIf I pretend this isn't a question about Iraq but a generic country, I'd take the chaotic democracy because most countries aren't as dysfunctional as Iraq is now, and in a fluid situation there is more hope for improvement than in a static situation such as a powerful dictator in total control.  Russia had chaotic democracy for a while and regressed to something like a Latin American pseudo-democracy, but I'd rather have lived through that than Stalin's or Brezhnev's regimes.\n\nI will still point out that the US has a shameful record of trading freedom for supposed security after 9/11.  The authors of the Bill of Rights would be disturbed to see a president repeal large chunks of it by fiat.  Anyone who voted for Bush in 2004 and now dares to lecture the Iraqis about how they should value freedom over security is profoundly hypocritical or uninformed.
93493
There isn't any.  Only the tin-foil-hat crowd that looks for some kind of justification for attacking Iraq, ( outside of oil ) even care to try.  Note they offer no direct evidence, just misleading and unsupported claims and maybe a link to a conspiracy website or two.
228198
It's inconceivable how they get it wrong so often. It's just as inconceivable how people still support him.\n\nLet's see we have the highest deficit and the highest foreign debt (borrowed from other countries) than ever. Do people know that Bush borrowed more money from other countries than all the previous presidents combined? And what have we to show for the nearly $400 Billion for the war in Iraq and thousands of Americans and Iraqi deaths there: A country on the verge of civil war. And the worst part is that this administration was warned about the problems of insurgency and the possibility of civil war and they went to war anyway. Saddam was no threat to our country. \n\nNow this administration wants to sell the operation of our ports to a country that worked with Al Qaeda, that was one of only three countries to acknowledge the Taliban government in Afghanistan and does not recognize Israel. Go figure we won't recognize the democratically elected Hamas in Palestine because they won't recognize Israel but we will let another that does not recognize Israel run our ports.
1077027
OK, OK you are right, we went to Iraq to blindly muder and kill woman and children. Comforting others is not our goal, it is kill, kill, for oil. Look at what we have gain by our highest ever oil prices right now. I mean what is wrong with us Yanks. Lets face it we should know that all our Presidents think and act exactly the same no matter who they are or what year it is or what party. I mean this person is right, we are stupid and unknowledgeable about the world and we do live in the dark ages. What is wrong with Regan for putting the pressure on Russia to bring down the wall in Germany and end Communism in that country? Why in heavens name did we rescue those people from Mt. Pinatubo? Why are we willing to help so many countries in need when the chips are down? Why do those nations who rake us over the coals come to us when evil is knocking at their doors? Why? Thank you sir for giving us that just do kick in the rear because us stupid Americans desirve it. God Bless America!!!!
942835
Well I saw the statement that he made and personally I don't think that he meant it the way it came out. It was just one of those situations when you put your foot in your mouth without realizing how it sounds to others. At the moment I am not a fan of politics as it seems that our country is going to hell in a handbasket! My husband is in the military and will probably have to ship off one day in the near future and it really makes me sick that it is for a inhumane cause. Iraq is not in any way trying to invade or attack us. So why are we there? Why are they trying to force a democracy that will never exist there? People have been under Islamic rule there for over 2,000 years why would they change now??? This is not about terrorism or weapons of mass destruction this is all about controlling the oil industry. It's a greedy, cruel, inhumane war that is taking the lives of our soliders and also killing innocent people who live there.
643112
As you stated...Bush IS a moron...there is NO logic in sending people to fight a "war" , people I might add that have a life, and family and hopes and plans. Yet it is wrong "morally" to have an abortion of a fetus that is unwanted and will most likely suffer. The only life that is sacred to G.W. is his own. The whole reason we are at "war" with Iraq is for this mans personal gain. We knew it at the time when he said there were "weapons of mass destruction" and it is being re-in-forced with the threat of attacking Iran...WAKE UP PEOPLE. This man is NOT a humanitarian...just a self serving liar!!
133798
I think the Bush administration has an agenda that the general public would not agree with if they knew the truth. What appears to be incompetance is actually just little bits of the truth that seep out from time to time. They are for big business and big money and anything that helps these two constituents. Its seems to me that every decision they make is in the pursuit of this goal.
751527
Arcane are you  crazy?  Their are a lot more modernized middle eastern countries that Iraq.  I have been to a couple different countries and I saw nothing that even Iraq.  You need to know what you are talking about before you start saying stuff like that.  One other thing I want to tell you about.  If the Iraqis didn't want us there all they had to do is run us out,  but they are going through what we did  in our civil war, Losing life's, homes, family and what not they know that it is a necessary evil but most of them are ready for a change.  There have been more business open up in the last year than any other year in their history.  Soon as they can show that their military is able and willing we will be out but no sooner.  It would be a disgrace to the US and its people if we left now and let total hell rain down upon them.
398988
I promise to not call you any names. Nor will I rant against Bush.\nHere are some of the problems:\n1. Waging a pre-emptive war on a sovereign nation is against international law and against the world's self-interests. I hope you don't want any country to be able to justify attacking another because the other country might be a threat in the future.\n\n2. Too much evidence suggest that the administration created  the WMD threat to justify their decision. Shouldn't going to war be based on an honest consideration of facts???? Shouldn't the administration be open about its reasons?\n\n3. Yes Saddam was a bad guy, but are you seriously suggesting that we take out anyone we think is a bad guy??? And talk about destabilizing--by what criterion could you possibly judge Iraq to be more stable now than before?\n\n4. Who's talking about returning Saddam to power???\n\n5. WMDs is not an obsession--just one of many reasons to question the honesty and the competence of the administration.
488712
This war in Iraq was planned by Bush, Cheney and Rumsfield even before the election of George W in 2000. They were just waiting for the right "excuse" to invade Iraq and 9/11 gave it to them. Justification for the war was fabricated by faulty intelligence of WMD and we are now paying the price for rushing into a war without the careful planning of what would happen after the overthrow of Hussein.Isn't it strange how we have to approve an "emergency budget" even years after the invasion occurred? Good planning all around and we will be a military prescence in Iraq(Iran??) for years to come.
932899
You know by looking at my rating I have half a brain I spend half my time laughing at the spelling, questions and ohhh God these answers, enough to know why American is in trouble. However, you are one of the true intelligent ones.  I will beat you are not American, are you?  I agree and if you want to hang Saddam for killing 300,000 Iraqi what do you want to do to someone who has killed 600,000 along with 2700+ Americans.\n\n"Retired Army War College prof. and CIA analyst (6 years) answers questions ranging from the gassing of the Kurds in Halabja [Iraq was not responsible, nor was it genocide by the Iranians], to Israel's push for war on Iraq; and the "chief enemy of the peace movement, the media."\n\nAmericans believe what the want, you're a racist if you love the Confederacy or its flag, Saddam did this or that.  The CIA reports that Saddam did not gas the Kurds!  If you do not believe that file a Freedom of Information Request, see FOIA site below it fills out the request for you (I did -he didn't).  But see for your self!\n\n\nGod Bless You and The Southern People.
252919
I think you're CONFUSED.\n\nOur soldiers are NOT living in LUXURY in those palaces. They are using them because they are the best FORTIFIED against attack the exact way Saddam had them built.\n\nOur soldiers are trudging around with 100 pounds  or so worth of gear on in 130 degree weather being constantly being shot at or potential victims of explosive devices.\n\nSorry, but you need to get your head on straight about WHO the GOOD GUYS ARE.\n\nBy the way, LEARN from stephenvest@... here. Here's a kid who clearly KNOWS IT ALL. He's probably served a couple of tours there or at least most of his friend have. Or wait! Maybe he's just some little dipwad spouting MANTRAS from his LIBERAL TEACHERS. Ya think? \n\nIf you DON'T CARE about people - you DON'T FIGHT for them! You don't rebuild their country better than ever and you damn sure don't DIE for them! As BAD as IRAQ CONDITIONS ARE, our troops are REENLISTING and RETURNING to IRAQ. There's NO OIL in it for THEM!\n************************************\nstephenvest@...: GET A LIFE. GET A CLUE. STOP HATING the country that gives you the FREEDOM to BE A DUMB*** PRETENDING you're INTELLIGENT when the TRUTH IS that YOU"RE JUST TOO BIG A COWARD TO GO! You're FOOLIN' NO ONE but YOURSELF!\n\nBTW, your LIST OF QUESTIONS REVEALS YOU FOR EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE. Just another LITTLE LIBERAL MANTRA SPOUTING PROPAGANDA MONGER THROWING EVERYTHING IN SIGHT PRAYING THAT SOMETHING WILL STICK... Sad.\n\n******************************\n\nAh, speaking of LEFTIST PROPAGANDA, I see planksheer is here. What a SUPRISE... ASK HIM WHERE ALL THIS OIL WE"RE GETTING ACTUALLY IS... He just NEVER seems to have any REAL ANSWERS. Go figure. If you want to see a LEFTIST AGENDA in ACTION - check out PLANK'S LONG LIST OF PROPAGANDA QUESTIONS ALSO.
1033914
Well I'm all for removal of the troops but I see 2 problems with this (going by only what you have told me btw)\n\n1. We can't make deals with the insurgents. That is for the new Iraqi government to do, not us.\n\n2. The question remains: are they willing to recognize the new Iraqi government as the sole controlling power within Iraq even after we leave?